Ken: Hello.

Cliff: WCSB live on tape from Courtland, New York...the sewer.

Ken: That's near Rochester somewhere far about, a long way.

Cliff: Fresh out of a gig at the Riverboat.

Ken: Pretty heavy. But anyway we're talking to Cliff Burton the bassist extraordinaire for the heavy metal - extremely heavy metal band - Metallica.

Cliff: Lead drunkard...

Ken: Lead drunkard? Hmmm. Well anyway, so hey Cliff how you doing?

Cliff: Alright...Good to see ya again Ken. (laughter)

Ken: Hey that's good to be welcome, thanks Cliff!

Cliff: yeah...

Ken: So Cliff what's the future look like, man?

Cliff: Future. Looks like we're gonna go to Europe...and drink good beer.

Ken: Good beer in Europe.

Cliff: And play with Venom and play with the Rods and play with...

Ken: More beer.

Cliff: Whatever else comes up, you know?

Ken: That's cool, definitely.

Cliff: Just go around here and there and generally cause trouble for all those European types. (laughter)...And record the album.

Ken: Yeah, when are you gonna be recording that album?

Cliff: Let's see...We're gonna record that son of a bitch...

Ken: March.

Cliff: March. (laughter) After the Venom tour we're going to record the album.

Ken: That's looking good.

Cliff: March you say? I'll trust you, March is good enough for me. Copenhagen in Sweet Silence Studios. It's where Rainbow did their last three albums. Early Mercyful Fate...

Ken: So Cliff, what do you have to say about our Cleveland jam-out public?

Cliff: Cleveland was wonderful. We had a real good time in Cleveland, lot's of good people.

Ken: Cliff, so how long have you been playing bass?

Cliff: I've been playing bass...It'll be about 8 years right about now.

Ken: 8 years?

Cliff: Well, give or take a year.

Ken: So who's your main influences there, Cliff?

Cliff: Main influences...Geezer Butler, Geddy Lee, Stanley Clarke, Roth, Jimi Hendrix, Tony Iommi...

Other guy in studio: Yngwie!

Cliff: No, not Yngwie...(laughter). Richie Blackmore! Ed King! Old guitar player for Lynyrd Skynard. He is fuckin' bad as shit!

Other guy: What!?

Cliff: That motherfucker...I swore a few times, I guess I wasn't supposed to do that...

Ken: How'd you get in Metallica?

Cliff: They called me for about 6 months and finally I decided that was the thing to do.

Ken: That was the hip scene, huh?

Cliff: Well, Trauma got a bit boring.

Ken: Yeah? That was a pretty good tune on Metal Massacre, though.

Cliff: Yeah, but they started to change you know. Like "let's be commercial so everybody will like us."

Ken: Did those guys put out anything after that?

Cliff: I doubt it...very seriously! (laughter) They're not too happening man, I'd seen 'em about a month before I left Cal...

Ken: So what do you think of Megaforce Records, Cliff?

Cliff: It's the most wonderful label in the universe, and we couldn't ask for anything more. But seriously, there's rather a lack of money. But there's a lot done on what is there. They get a lot accomplished for what they have.

Ken: So how's the album sales on Kill Em All? Gettin' there or what?

Cliff: 60,000 world-wide, something like that.

Ken: That's cool. That's pretty many. Is it steadily selling or what?

Cliff: Yes it's still moving.

Ken: That's cool. So how's the tour been so far on this short little tour going on here?

Cliff: The tour's been good. Been staying pretty inebriated...Puffin' the spleafage.

Ken: Puffin' the spleafage?

Cliff: Sure.

Ken: I hear these dudes keep coming up from this town with these buds...

Cliff: Yeah, in some dump called Cleveland. (laughter)

Ken: Oh well..

Cliff: No, Cleveland's nice. We liked Cleveland a lot. It was one of the better stops actually. It was a good club, it was a good crowd.

Ken: That's decent.

Cliff: It's a pity we didn't make it there on the Raven tour, though.

Ken: You'll be back.

Cliff: Oh we'll be back, definitely.

Ken: That's cool. So everything's set for Europe, huh?

Cliff: Yeah we got tickets and everything, man.

Ken: So how many gigs do you think you'll be doing out there?

Cliff: I don't know about 8 or 10 dates with Venom, we got various headlining dates I don't know how many. And we got the Kerrang Music For Nations Tour. The Rods, Excitor, and us...

Heres A Revised Version Of The First Interview.

HO: Cliff, uh, tell us about, uh, what you thought of the Day on the Green show.

C: It was fun.

HO: C’mon

C: What do u want?

HO: No, what you thought of the crowd and the show & everything

C: Crowd was fucking real good. Real big. I was fucking real drunk. Uh, I guess we did ok. Nothing hard to tell when you’re on stage. Y’know. You don’t really know what’s going on. You just do it. Find out what happens later.

HO: Lots of shoes being thrown?

C: I couldnt see them. I couldn’t see shit really.

HO: Yeah, that’s cool. What about the Donnington bottles? Tell us about Donnington.

C: Donnington was uh, was a day of targets. And projectiles. Basically. Fucking shit was piling up high on the stage. all Throughout the day. And uh, freaks were fucking flipping.

HO: It wasn’t cuz they didn’t like you.

C: Nah, they just do that cuz they, they like to do that. They like to throw shit. I think they liked us though.

HO: Yeah, I heard that, uh, I heard good, uh, good news. Um, what about new album? Tell us shit about new album. About the time this gets printed, it’ll be out.

C: New album? I suppose you know the title by now, right?

HO: Yeah.

C: Eh.

HO: Favorite, favorite, favorite, favorite song?

C: Favorite song is Master. Master, I think is, uh, the best Metallica song, yet. Its, uh, fucking lyrics are getting a lot better. Fucking real good shit.

HO: Kinda like your music’s getting more technical too, right?

C: Yeah. Everything’s, uh, kinda growing a bit. Y’know. It’s progressing.

HO: (grunt) What about the thrashier ones? The heavier thrashier ones.

C: They’re.

HO: Battery and Damage.

C: They’re uh. They’re uh. Very fast, y’know. Typical kind of Metallica fucking shit. Fast shit. Then there’s, you know, a bunch of other shit.

HO: How’d it go, how did it go in the studio recording it? Was it as smooth as anticipated or?

C: It took too long. We fucking. We didn’t manage our time all that well. But, uh, sounds real, real good. And what we came out with was, uh, y’know, very good. I think we, uh. Like I say we could have managed our time a bit better. But all in all, it was, uh it was I think quite a success.

HO: So, you think it’s like, it’s a good follow-up to Ride the Lightning then eh?

C: Definitely.

HO: Yeah. You guys are progressing in the same style, right?

C: Yeah. Yeah, it’s no abrupt change.

HO: More technicalities.

C: It’s just growing.

HO: Ok, how about some of your equipment? I didn’t get shit out of these guys. [ ] try to do something like that. What do you use for amplification?

C: Using mesa boogie amps. Mesa boogie cabinets. Uh, got some 4X12 cabs from ‘em and some custom-built 1X15 cabs. Uh.

HO: Built to your specifications?

C: Yeah, they’re basically a 1X15 stuffed inside a 412 box.

HO: Ok.

C: So, y’know, they uniformly fit with the back line.

HO: Right.

C: Uh, playing Aria basses. Aria black and gold is the one I prefer.

HO: What happened to the Rickie?

C: The Rickie needs some work.

HO: Yeah?

C: Uh, I had an Alembic for a while which I was very happy with until it was stolen. If anyone out there comes across a black spoiler bass, uh, with a fair-size chip in the black finish up around on the side of the peg-head, uh, it very well might be mine. Uh, so just send it to me.

HO: Hah. Wow. Where did it get ripped at?

C: It got ripped off, uh, from my car.

HO: OK.

C: It Got ripped off in Castro Valley

HO: Do you use strings? What kind of strings do you use?

C: Roto sound round wound.

HO: All right. What, uh, what was your first gig with The band?

C: Uh, I guess it was at the Stone or at the Keystone Berkeley or something like that.

HO: What, what do you have to say about the early days? You guys obviously progressed I heard a lot about that, but, uh.

C: It was fun back then. It’s fun now.

HO: You guys seemed to have a more fuck it all attitude then. Now, now you seem to have, uh….

C: Well, I think you can safely say that we’ve, we’ve matured musically if not any other way…

HO: Yeah.

C: …a bit over the past three years. And, uh, also there, there’s a lot more at stake now.

HO: A Major Label, major management, right?

C: Yeah.

HO: Managements taken real good care of you, right?

C: Yeah. Everyone who we’ve, uh, signed withs uh, doing a great job for us. It’s all going well.

HO: All right. All right. Um. How do, where do you think you guys will be a couple years from now? You think you, I mean, you’re obviously on the way up. But, uh, you think you’re going to be up there with the Maidens and the Priests? I mean, it looks that way now, but uh…

C: Well, I dunno. I try not to uh, I try not to, to speculate about those kind of things. Uh, that way I, I can’t be wrong. If I don’t, uh…

HO: Right, right.

C: …make a guess about it. It’s just we try our best. We take it as far as we can. And do what we can and see where it takes us.

HO: All right. Things are looking up now, eh?

C: Oh yeah.

HO: The album is going to be released on the 2nd?

C: Uh, it’s supposed to be in stores by the second. The release date is something like the 27th or something.

HO: Ok. What was, what was your most memorable show, your favorite show you played?

C: Shit. Uh. That’s, uh, hard to say here, uh.

HO: Yeah. I think Day on the Green and New Year’s were especially cool. Cuz I mean you’re playing for massive crowds in your home town, man.

C: Yeah. Those. See, that’s the thing. Different shows have different good points. Y’know. Big show in front of the home town but, There’s also other gigs. Like, y’know. Things are just really, really happening, y’know. And there’s been a few of those. And there’s different things that make different shows memorable.

HO: Right.

C: I couldn’t pinpoint one as being a favorite.

HO: Did you have a Good times at all?

C: what?

HO: Had good time at all of them, I’m sure.

C: Most of ‘em.

HO: You always look like you’re having a good time.

C: Sometimes it gets to you. All in all, it uh, percentages are real good for shows.

HO: What about your earlier bands like, uh, Trauma? How did you get in contact with Metallica?

C: Trauma went down to LA and did some stuff. And around LA, Lars and James, uh, saw us and, uh, decided that they’d, uh, like to have me in their band and so they started getting a hold of me, calling me. And I came to their shows here, when they played Frisco.

HO: Uh hum.

C: And eventually, uh, Trauma started to annoy me, uh, a couple different ways. So I said, “Later.”

HO: Musically?

C: Musically, yeah. Yeah, it was musical. They, they were starting to adopt these attitudes about how [ ]. Started to get a little commercial.

HO: Yeah.

C: In different ways. Different general musical attitudes that I found very annoying

HO: Yeah, you wanted to get heavier.

C: Definitely.

HO: Yeah. What, you told them, you told them they had to move up here if you were going to join them?

C: Yeah I told them they’d have to move up here cuz I wasn’t about to move down to LA. 'cause I like it up here.

HO: Yeah. That’s cool.

C: So they said yeah, well we’re gonna do that anyway, so that worked out just right. So they came up and we, uh, got together here in this, uh, this room that we’re sitting in now. Set up the gear and blasted it out for a couple of days. And it was pretty obvious straight away that, uh…

HO: Yeah.

C: Y’know. It was, it was a good thing to do.

HO: What about.

C: We did it.

HO: What about on the new album. Uh I heard some short bass solo type thing. Where your using a volume pedal? What is that called? What’s that about?

C: This album. It’s. The intro to a song called Damage was done all on bass. It’s about 8 or 12 tracks of bass. A lot of harmonies and, y’know, using volume swells and effects and stuff. It’s. I’d hesitate to call it a bass solo. It’s more just an intro.

HO: Right. Right.

C: yeah But it is all bass.

HO: Yeah. It’s hard to tell. It sounds like synthesizers. thats great.

C: Yeah it is hard to tell.

HO: It’s cool.

C: There’s also a little bass solo, uh, in Orion. It’s right next to a little guitar solo. No one will probably be able to tell but its basically what it is.

HO: That’s cool, that’s cool. It’s what, in the first break?

C: Nah, it’s probably about two thirds of the way into the song.

HO: What about some of your bands before Trauma? Like, how did you start playing bass and shit? What are some of your first bands worthy of mention?

C: Uh, I used to jam around with some local friends. Uh, they got together with, uh, these guys who called themselves EZ Street. It was named after a strip joint in San Mateo.

HO: What kind of music?

C: It was all kinds of weird shit. It got Pretty silly actually. Uh, did a lot of covers. it was worthy shit. But It, i was with them for a while, for a few years.

HO: Right before Trauma?

C: Yeah. And then, uh, slowly, but surely disintegrated. Then, uh, I seen Trauma and said “Well, I might as well do that.”

HO: Sounds cool.

C: Didn’t have anything better to do.

HO: When did you start playing?

C: I started playing, uh, in, uh, 1976.

HO: Ok. What are, what are some of your influences?

C: Influences. Would be, uh. First off, the bass-playing. It would be Geddy Lee, Geezer Butler, uh, Stanley Clark, uh.

HO: The gods.

C: Who?

HO: The gods

C: Uh.

HO: (laughs)

C: Let’s see, who else. Playing bass. Who else.

HO: What about Steve Harris?

C: Uh No, I didn’t. I never really heard him until it was like…

HO: You already developed your own style?

C: Yeah. Lemmy had also an influence in the way he uses distortion.

HO: Yeah. C: That was, that was different. New and exciting. Uh, also certain guitar players had an influence. Y’know, people like uh. Well, everything Thin Lizzy did has had an influence.

HO: phil was great.

C: Uh, Jimi Hendrix and ulrich Roth, Shankar to a little degree, Maybe Tony Iommi who also had an influence.

HO: I’ve noticed you’ve added a lot of, a lot of fills on some of the older songs that you weren’t doing before. I guess after playing them so long, you just….

C: Yeah, y’know, you get uh, you get, you get so that you know the song like the back of your hand, y’know, and you can just flip off and do different shit. (garbled) its funner that way. Keeps me entertained. Y’know.

HO: Ok.

C: Something to do.

HO: Yeah. Um ok. Getting down to the end here. Um. What about your favorite songs on the first album?

C: (grunts)

HO: theres Anesthesia

C: I don’t really consider that a song

HO: Well, I mean…

C: Uh.

HO: … your showcase there.

C: Well, yeah, but a song is a song.

HO: Well, that’s true. C: That’s a solo. Uh. Shit.

HO: What do you enjoy playing live out of the older ones?

C: I like playing Seek live. It’s easy. Y’know, don’t have to pay attention to what I’m doing. Uh, Four Horsemen is fun.

HO: Yeah. I notice Dave didn’t play that that night. New Year’s Eve? Dave left the mechanixs out of his set there.

C: Oh yeah? I didn’t, I didn’t get a chance to see Dave that night.

HO: Not very many people did. They started before 8 o’clock. Before the doors even were. I mean, before the crowd was in there. I just thought that was kind of strange. they definitely made a point not to play that in the set and they always close with that.

C: Hmm. That’s interesting. HO: Yeah. Um, ok. How about your top 5 albums? This is kind of lame, but.

C: Uh, top 5 albums. Shit.

HO: 5 reasons C: Let’s just say, uh.

HO: Top 5 bands.

C: Yeah. Everything by, by Glen Danzig. Which is, uh, Misfits or Samhain. All his shit. All of Thin Lizzy’s stuff. Um, what else? Jesus. Uh. Aaaaaaah, shit. Um.

HO: The Stones? Creedence?

C: Nah, nah. Black Sabbath stuff. Geezer real. Uh. What else. There’s a band called REM that I like a lot, strangely enough.

HO: Rapid eye movement.

C: And there’s also, uh … shit

HO: Theres a band.

C: Uh, shit. A little Aerosmith shit. the New Aerosmith shit too. I like Aerosmith a lot.

HO: Yeah, whole band does, I notice. Tell us about the spastic scene

C: Spastic Children. That’s uh. That is uh an excuse to get out and fucking bash a few and drink a few. Y’know. Spastic Children are fucking, just a bunch of fucking assholes.

HO: Ok, now. It’s made up of what, you… Give me some details on this.

C: You want details on this uh Harold?

HO: If it’s cool. If its nothing you want made mass publicized?

C: Uh.

HO: Jim on bass.

C: Probably no, best not.

HO: Yeah, that’s what I was figuring.

C: Everyone else is going to fucking ask me about it, right? Every time I do an interview. “What’s this?” Fok, fok, fok, fok.

HO: Just going out and thrashing and not worrying about what it sounds like too much, right? C: Not worried about much of anything.

HO: Ok.

C: Just something to do on a fucking, y’know, Tuesday night. Fucking don’t have anything else to do.

HO: And you, uh…

C: No big deal.

HO: …and your studio gets rained on.

C: Yeah.

HO: All right. This is a really lame question. Do you have anything to say to aspiring musicians? I mean like, uh, when you were going through something heavy, I mean, let’s say in your past, what did you do to stick it out? What’s your advice?

C: When I first started I decided that I would devote my life to it

HO: Yeah. That’s probably the only way you can go anywhere, right? Just by doing it?

C: Well, it works for me. I imagine there’s a lot of people that devote their lives to it and don’t achieve the success they want. I mean there’s many factors involved here, but that would be the main one. it to absolutely devote your self to that. and Virtually marry yourself to that. To what you’re going to do. And not get sidetracked by all the other bullshit that life has to offer.

HO: Don’t give up.

C: Yeah.